From: Maniac High's Seduction Website


mrsex4unyc and Greg write on pivot theory and social proof!

[Pivot = a chick that you take to a bar to in order to pick up 
        other chicks. Use chicks who won't lay you but still 
        want to see you, for this purpose. Basically, this works 
        because most chicks will find you more attractive and 
        get jealous when you are already with a chick than when 
        you are not. -- Maniac]

>From mrsex4unyc@aol.comedr4d Mon Sep 13 22:54:39 1999
From: mrsex4unyc@aol.comedr4d (MrSex4uNYC)
Subject: Re: cut your losses
Lines: 94
Date: 07 Sep 1999 14:21:59 GMT
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X-Newsreader: AOL Offline Reader

In article , Dream 

>Hey, NYC, I was just wondering - how often when you spin this line do
>you suddenly get the chick changing her mind and deciding to get happy
>with you?


it's not to the point of sex thought... it's kinda interesting.  what I am
really doing is telling them the truth, that if they don't want to have sex
with me then they are going to be treated like one of the fellas.  They will
DEFINITELY be paying for their own shit (if they had ANY inkling that I was
going to pay for them when we go out) and I will be looking at and trying to
meet and make out with any chicks that I like while I am with her.  She will
suddenly be my co-worker or cousin or whatever she has to be to get the other
girls comfortable with talking to me.  what happens to them though is they LOSE
their GRIP on me (that they never had in the first place)  they THINK that they
are going to get special treatment and attention from me because I WANT TO FUCK
THEM.  as soon as I remove that from them, they realize who they really are...
NOBODY!  they immediately struggle somehow to get their status back.  either
they keep complaining about it not being RIGHT for me to talk to other women in
front of them in which case I bring up all this sexual shit that they JUST
FIISHED SAYING they don't want with me OR they say something about I meant not
TODAY or some variation.  they try to make it seem like if I can treat them
like women for a few dates that they will give it up.  NOPE!  not interested. 
if she can't be into me NATURALLY and RIGHT NOW then she is LJBF and that's it
(until she comes up with some DRASTIC sexual move that puts her back in the

if they survive that point and actually go out with me as a pivot... THE SPARKS
FLY!  as soon as they see the smiles I get from RANDOM women passing by and
they see the looks on my face toward those women, they SUDDENLY don't want to
play the game anymore.  I suppose it's that competitive-woman thing where they
want the guy that the other chick has... but she is already WITH ME AND GETTING
JEALOUS!  at some point she reconsiders OR acccepts her role as a pivot.

trust me.  a girl that is not sexing you is MORE VALUABLE as a pivot than
anything else.  you can take her out and get EASIER RESPONSES from other women
ALL NIGHT!  plus the other women ASSUME that you are paying for her shit and
treating her the way THEY want to be treated.  then they see you smiling at
them and figure they may be able to snag you from her.

if she accepts her role, you can send her to the bar for drinks STRATEGICALLY
near women that you want to meet.  let HER strike up a conversation and invite
them over to the table... money in ghe bank fellas.

like I said, they don't HOP IN THE BED WITH ME as soon as I tell them what the
deal is, but you can tell that their need for attention and affection and to be
desired kicks in when you REMOVE all those things from your relationship.  when
she realizes that she will get some conversation from you and invited to go out
to WATCH YOU meet other chicks that she KNOWS are going to sex you because she
would herself if she wasn't bullshitting, she kicks it into gear to get back
the relationship she WANTED YOU for in the first place.  even if she only
wanted to tease you every day and go to sleep ALONE knowing someone wanted her
that day, she can't do that as a "friend".  she has to find a way to get
herself OUT OF LJBF to prove herself an attractive, seductive woman.  that's
her new CHALLENGE!

>How often do they tell you to fuck off (presumably lower than an
>average guy, given your obvious personal presence and looks)?

it depends on her personality, and opportunities for hanging out.  you can
kinda tell which way they are going to go.  all I want is for them to be out of
my way.  if their response to "hand over the sex" is "no way" and their
response to "in that case, I will treat you like one of the fellas" is "I want
to be treated like a DATE"  I will explain to them that I only date women I am
sexing... not in so many words... then it is their decision.  if they can't
handle their new position, or they are too PROUD to stand by while I meet other
women... oh, I forgot to mention that I let then know VERY CLEARLY that I spend
the most time with my favorite girls, so they are essentially witnessing THE
END of their time with me as they watch me meet girls that are OBVIOUSLY dying
to get me home.  there is no way that a "friend" that I hang out with is going
to get my time over a girl I am fucking AND can hang out with AND STILL meet
other chicks!

if they do tell me to fuck off, I start the debate of "ok, fine... but I
offered you my time sexually, then I offered you my time non-sexually... you
just turned down both... WHAT THE FUCK DID YOU WANT TO MEET ME FOR?"  that
normally kicks off some introspection... and sometimes a sly smile that gives
their bullshit game away... then it's KINO TIME!

>How far into the conversation do you go before you make this clear to

it all depends.  the first thing I want to do is elicit their values.  I need
to know what I am passing up before I do it.  as soon as she doesn't meet the
criteria of the level of woman that I want to have sex with (past a one night
stand) she's LJBF.  I will entertain any objections to us being just friends
and after that, I will offer to her to hang out with me even though we aren't
going to be screwing... but here are the rules of hanging out with me...

From mrsex4unyc@aol.comedr4d Fri Oct  1 01:38:19 1999
From: mrsex4unyc@aol.comedr4d (MrSex4uNYC)
Subject: Re: Question for MrSex4uNYC
Lines: 72
Date: 28 Sep 1999 21:37:18 GMT
Organization: AOL
Message-ID: <>

>Could you post some more info on the way you use pivots? I'm especially
>interested to know if these girls get off on getting you laid? Do they help
>you actually sarge the new ones?
>Thanks in advance,

first of all... to give credit... I got the ENTIRE pivot idea from outfoxer. 
yes, I have hung out with girls for years already, but I was not USING THEM to
their full potential before I read about the idea of the PIVOT on his site or
saw a post of his or something.

now... this is how it works.  I will give a chick an adequate amount of time to
get to know me and decide if she likes me physically or not.  If I WANT HER, I
will press her QUICK for her answer as far as are we going to have sex with
each other or not.  If I DON'T want her (a setup date from a friend, or backing
up a wing) I will give her more time.  there comes a time though that she HAS
to decide.  use it or lose it.  I let her know GM style that this is her
shot... right now... while I think she is sexy and am very interested in her as
a person.  this is her shot to be with me for as long as we last together, but
if she doesn't want that (and I don't pressure them at all)... if she doesn't
want to see what we can be to each other, then she has two choices.  hang with
me to make me look good and help me to get other chicks by staying out of my
way... or we don't hang out at all.  LJBF pivot or nothing.  this is less
radical than outfoxer's idea that they can ONLY spend time with him if they
hand over the sex themselves OR after going out themselves and getting him a
chick to fuck to "prove their worthiness to hang with him"  I thought about
that, but I think it's a little too radical for my style AND I don't trust
chicks' tastes in women  :)

so anyway... she has the choice to make.  if she isn't going to be a sex
partner for me, then she relinquishes ALL her rights as a woman such as me
paying attention to her and not trying to pick up other women while I'm hanging
with her.  what sense does it make to be in a place where there are women that
have NOT stonewalled you yet and talking to and spending time with one that HAS
stonewalled you?  If I don't like the chick, she goes DIRECTLY to LJBF pivot...
I don't even give her the OP to be with me.

once you establish her role in hanging out with you, take her to a populated
place with lots of chicks and make your pivot laugh and look like she's having
a good time... unless the two of you look GREAT together, then fuck the
bullshit and scope the room to see which chicks are looking at you.

when you see girls you want going to the bathroom, send your pivot to the
bathroom.  they will meet her on the LONG line for the women's bathroom and
start a conversation with her and eventually ask her who she is to you.  then
she tells them WHATEVER you told her to tell them (co-worker, cousin,
ex-girlfriend, LJBF... whatever works for you)  make sure your pivot knows that
she can invite them over to hang out if they show interest.  you don't want
them feeling intimidated by her, but befriended by her.

you can also send the pivot to the bar to get the drinks and squeeze in next to
chicks you want.. OR you can send her ANYWHERE for 5 minutes when you see that
chicks want to approach you, but don't want a problem with your pivot.  send
her OUT of the bar if you have to :)

the only thing is this... the girl really has to LIKE you in order for this
stuff to work.  you are NOT buying her drinks (you can alternate buying rounds
if you like) and she is getting NOTHING out of the deal except for going out
instead of staying home.  it works with chicks that enjoy your company, but
have some PROBLEM with sexing you.  they are actually amused at what you can
get away with with the other chicks.  the other value to the pivot deal is that
you keep them around you so they can "break glass in case of horniness" - Chris
Rock  :)

and yes... they help and they LIKE to help because that takes the pressure off
of them to perfoem sexually.  if you are being satisfied by other women, they
feel relieved... what they don't realize though is they are recruiting my next
pivots.  I will definitely hang out with a chick that likes to sex me AND
doesn't mind me meeting other women BEFORE hanging out with a prude for the
same purpose.  they are phasing themselves out and don't even know it.  then
when you don't call them anymore, they suddenly want to hang out with you and
it's time for RETURNING FOX!  hehe

From Sun Nov 14 05:20:41 1999
From: Nathan SZILARD 
Subject: Re: Another GM
Date: Fri, 12 Nov 1999 18:53:10 +0100
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> Woman are lazy and wont take the time to get interested in EVERY guy 
> get to know them.  There just isnt enough time.  They'll let other 
> do the work for them.  If woman see a guy with woman falling all over
> him they tend to want to get to know him too.  They know in at
> least someway the guy is attractive.  Thier at least curious.  Lord
> knows how easy a curious woman can be.

Excellent! That's a great explanation of the concept of SOCIAL PROOF.
Why do we act like sheeps, doing as others? Because we don't have
the time/resources to get all the information and to process to make
decisions all by ourselves.

From mrsex4unyc@aol.comedr4d Sat Dec 25 22:14:27 1999
From: mrsex4unyc@aol.comedr4d (MrSex4uNYC)
Subject: Re: pivot theory WITH screening
Lines: 102

In article , "thx"

>>what they ARE good for is inviting ME to more parties
>>like this one.
>yeah? how do you do it?

valid question :)

>that chick has like sixty friends and she's gonna remember YOU when she gets
>invited to some party?

hehe no.  THAT would be magic :)

>how do you make them want to spend time with you
>right after you've met them?

the way *I* use PIVOTS, they DON'T want to spend time with me.  that's just the
point.  they became PIVOTS because they FAILED the screening process.  they
either didn't look good enough or weren't sexy enough or didn't want to sex me
or WHATEVER section(s) they failed.  the problem is that you have to THREAD THE
NEEDLE :)  they have to be interested enough in you as a person to invite you
to the party and INTRODUCE YOU to other chicks there... but NOT INTERESTED
enough that they don't SABOTAGE your efforts.

FORTUNATELY, chicks dig companionship and other bullshit... so give it to them.
 do the same thing you have BEEN doing while "dating" the girls you know now. 
all that shit that DOESN'T get you laid.  this will appease the PIVOT and give
her good feelings about you.  I like using the phone or PARTICULARLY online
(since you can sarge SEVERAL chicks online at the same time).  I don't spend
PHYSICAL time with them (except in situations where you can meet other chicks)
because that is reserved for the chicks that passed the screen and are sexing
me.  besides, if you are out to dinner or some shit with a PIVOT, you could be
missing a call for "movie night" with a REAL WOMAN :)

>it can't simply be because you're a NATURAL, can it?

that's a good question.  I will admit that I would have to use different
tactics if women didn't LIKE having me around.

>I'm assuming you don't drop your # in their lap and tell them to
>give you a call when they go someplace interesting.

that would NEVER work.  you have to keep POLLING them.  you have to keep
calling them and finding out what they are going to do this week, and where the
parties are, when they're meeting their girlfriends after work... the point is
that your relationship to her is PURELY SOCIAL.  her JOB is helping you to meet
other chicks.  in return, you give her compliments and friendship and all that
other shit that doesn't get you anywhere with REAL WOMEN.  that's how I see it.
 trade them ROCKS for other bitches' GOLD :)

>i've had this problem forever. like this girl (9 but doesn't matter), I've
>known her for six years now, and at this party I've talked to her for an
>hour, made her laugh, talked about all kinds of shit and later she told
>a mutual friend how she had a really nice talk with me and how I've changed
>a lot, like more outgoing, confident, fun, etc. (really surprised me,
>somewhat courtesy of ASF wouldn't you know). but, two weeks after is her
>birthday party and she of course doesn't invite me.

do you know you can STALL a chick in less than a MINUTE?  that is one of the
reasons for the 3s rule.  YOU STALLED THIS BITCH FOR SIX YEARS! hahahaha you
are WAY behind the game.  even if you have changed her opinion of you at this
point, you just said she has like 60 FRIENDS!  what does she NEED you for? 
NOTHING!  you NEED her to get you the connections to the other ~30 chicks.  YOU
have to do the calling.  ACT like you enjoy being friends with her and score
invites to all the parties.  I don't get the feeling you have cracked her
top-10-friends list with your hour-long showing.  I am not a callER... I am a
callEE.  people call me to see what I am doing... but ONLY when they have a
reason to do so.  if they know some chick is going that I'd like to meet, or
that *I* would ENHANCE their good time somehow, or if they just have NO ONE
ELSE TO GO WITH!  even not being a callER, I have to POLL these people and ask
what's going on this weekend or what is going on Wed night or whatever.  the
other thing is that chicks are AFRAID OF REJECTION.  they don't want to call
you and invite you somewhere and then you say NO!  hehe  they would rather not
call you at all... so you have to call them and PRY the information out of
them.  it certainly HELPS if they KNOW that the only reason you are calling
them is to find out what social events they can bring you into.

>now, I don't care about that (or any) particular girl or that (or any)
>particular birthday party but this is the trouble I'm having with most girls
>that could be handy as pivots. they seem to LIKE to talk to me when we bump
>into eachother on the street or when I meet / see them on campus, they laugh
>when I want them to, they CONFIDE to me all kinds of stuff, but have no
>INCENTIVE to hang out with me or invite me to hang out with them. like they
>have fun while talking to me, we go for coffee or share a cab or whatever
>but as soon as I'm gone, they FORGET, like their brains run on a two minute

you have to have their numbers and call them BRIEFLY to find out what's

>now I KNOW I'm fucking up somewhere but I don't know what it is. my main
>problem is that I don't meet enough chicks and it's MUCH easier through
>active pivots, just as it's much easier to get a job when you have
>references. do you HAVE to tell pivots about their role?

yup.  tell them just like that.

Look.  I need to meet more chicks and it's much easier through girls that know
other girls.  let me know when there is something going on... old buddy, old
pal  :)