From the archives at Maniac High's Seduction Website:

http://www.pickupguide.com

NYC's comments on:
Evening Report: Maniac FUMBLES Ms. Tubby but makes a discovery!

From mrsex4unyc@aol.comedr4d Wed Sep  8 20:33:34 1999
From: mrsex4unyc@aol.comedr4d (MrSex4uNYC)
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast
Subject: Re: Evening Report: Maniac FUMBLES Ms. Tubby but makes a discovery!
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In article <8LoB3.5731$LL2.62023@c01read02-admin.service.talkway.com>,
"maniac_high"  writes:

>PROBLEM: her state is all wrong when I get her back to my place, and
>I can't change it to something that it useful, so that she doesn't
>freak when I try to touch/kiss her...
>
>Opinions?
>
>Maniac

yeah... there are rules for making it to your house... either sexual kino or
correct state.  otherwise, don't bother because you failed your groundwork...
better to stay OUT until she gets in state than to have that shit happen in
your house.  unless of course, you feel that she is being shy because of being
out in the street... then take her home and see what happens.

From mrsex4unyc@aol.comedr4d Wed Sep  8 20:34:07 1999
From: mrsex4unyc@aol.comedr4d (MrSex4uNYC)
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast
Subject: Re: Evening Report: Maniac FUMBLES Ms. Tubby but makes a discovery!
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In article ,
"maniac_high"  writes:

>Evening Report: Maniac FUMBLES Ms. Tubby but makes a discovery!
>990908
>
>Tonight, was an evening with a throwaway chick (Ms. Tubby, a cute 
>`7', but had a little bit of a belly), which I fumbled and ended up not 
>laying. Even though I am already fucking some "regulars" who I like 
>who are better looking than this chick, I often date throwaway chicks 
>and try to fuck them, just to practice laying chicks and to learn 
>something/improve my style.

that's what it's all about.  the pro baseball players have to go to spring
training EVERY YEAR before the season starts  :)

>Tonight was no exception. I learned 
>something very interesting from this which will discuss after the 
>detailed report, especially concerning `types of chicks', and matching 
>your approaches to types of chicks. I found this out when calling a 
>second chick right after the first one left, and noticing a stunning 
>difference in reaction to pretty much the same approach. The result 
>with Tubby, was pretty much a "Ms Sparkles" spaghetti chick type 
>result, even though I did do the things that NYC said this time. I did 
>find some other things I did wrong though WITH THIS TYPE OF 
>CHICK. My impression (now) is that Tubby was looking for an easy 
>no obligation lay, and wanted me to give it to her. I fumbled because I 
>though she wanted more than that, and tried to protray myself as that 
>kind of guy.

OOOOOOOPS!  hahaha

Elicited the WRONG VALUES maybe?  :)

>First the story, then my analysis, and corrections I will 
>make. Comments welcome as usual!
>
>Allright, first the report. Ms Tubby  is a girl I met in the disco the
>night 
>I was out with Picasso on Friday. I was in a good laughing mood on 
>Friday, and made eye contact with her as I was moving, and we hit it 
>off fairly well in the bar initially. Her English was so, so I thought 
>(though tonight I found that her english is okay, but she often doesn't 
>listen, rather she is thinking the next thing to say).

you should have remembered this for your date.  this chick is a TALKER... not a
LISTENER... act accordingly.

>I get her number, 
>and call her a couple days later. When I got her number, she said to
>call 
>her before she went to London 8 months later..that was strange..but ok.

yeah I met a desperate chick on AOL on a Friday night.  she told me to call her
before TUESDAY because she was going on a trip to Disney World... though she
CLAIMED not to have any kids.  :)

I think this shows low self-esteem.  guys probably NEVER call her, so getting a
call within 8 months is probably GOOD for her :)

>When I call her, she doesn't remember who I am, but is game to meet 
>me anyways. We make an arrangement for the next evening after work 
>in Shibuya, a busy area a couple stations from my house (I often meet 
>chicks here the first time because chicks are usually afraid to go to
>the 
>station where I live, as it is a bit obscure and it makes them 
>uncomfortable I found).

that is a good idea.  keep it as general and safe for them as possible.  not
only are they more likely to agree, but they are not NERVOUS about the
surroundings, which will be ANCHORED to you.

>I get to Shibuya., and the chick is waiting.
>She 
>is dressed well and looks good. I meet her and she immediately takes 
>my hand (a good sign).

no, an excellent sign.  what did you do after SHE took your hand?  do you know
the hassles some guys go through to get a chick to LET THEM TAKE HER HAND AND
KEEP IT?  think about it.  SHE initiated KINO with YOU!  you should have gone
for more mild kino to see how far she wanted it to go.  also, how did you greet
her?  kiss on the cheek?  handshake?  nothing?

>Then I ask her if she ate, and she asks me if I 
>ate. I say no, and then she says no (clue, I think she would have said 
>`yes' had I said so).

she would have DEFINITELY said yes.  chicks don't like to eat in front of guys.
 you also said she has a weight problem.  she is STRIVING to look like she
doesn't eat a lot :)  she was giving you the reins by reflecting the question
to you.  whether you ate or not is irrelevant to your question to her.  she was
HANDING YOU the lead like she GAVE YOU her hand earlier.

>I suggest to go get a bite nearby. She has this
>really 
>confused look on her face now (I think she expected me to take her 
>right home and fuck her).

you SHOULD have asked her "so... WHAT do you want to eat?" and flashed her a
look.  you MIGHT have gotten a response of her looking at your dick or smiling
in a sly fashion that would have told you to kiss her then take her ass HOME! 
:)

>We start to go to a place neary to eat, and
>she 
>remarks that there are good places near my own station (clue #2 which 
>I pick up). I tell her lets go there then. So we do. 

typical "I wanna get fucked" move.  it's the same thing as coming closer to you
in a bar so you can talk to her.  I have been IN BARS far from my house and had
chicks DECIDE to change venues and SKIP dozens of bars NEAR where we were to go
to places near my house.

>We get there, and we order. I start to talk to her now. Here is where
>the 
>fumble begins I think. This chick wanted to fuck. She didn't want to 
>talk (turns out she is rather boring to talk to, and is hard to
>interact 
>with). But we are eating now instead (actually, I did this, because
>many 
>chicks freak out if you try to take them home instantly, or say they
>are 
>hungry when they get there, and want to go someplace to eat). 

stop that "many chicks" shit.  play each situation as it unfolds.  chicks are
so random that you can't even count on the way you laid them the FIRST TIME to
work the second time :)  you CERTAINLY can't apply what you did with OTHER
girls to this one... though it is a good template.

>When talking I ask her if she has a BF. I asked her this at the club,
>and 
>the reply (in the noise) I thought I heard, was "several", but it was 
>really loud. So I asked if she is the type with lots of BFs and she
>says 
>"maybe". Another clue, this girl likes to fuck around. Then I ask her 
>what she wants in a BF and she says she doesn't want a BF (another 
>clue, wants an easy relationship maybe).

weak, lame... now you start into sex shit?  you didn't LEARN ANYTHING about the
chick!  why doesn't she want a boyfriend?  when was she last in a steady
relationship?  when was she last with a man?  if you had asked her WHY she
didn't want a boyfriend, she MIGHT have said "because I hate fucking the same
guy over and over... I like meeting new men."  then what?  take her ass HOME!

you are missing ops to LET HER HINT at what she wants.  you are sticking too
strictly to FORM and not playing the game as it unfolds.

>So I start to talk about sex 
>stuff like NYC said, I start to talk about an old GF, and what she was 
>like.

why are you talking about girlfriends when she said she doesn't want a
boyfriend?  why are you talking about other women BEFORE you know if she HATES
IT when guys talk about other women?

>But her response is negative, she starts picking on the fact that I 
>helped her choose her clothes, and how that was bad. (uh oh).

DUH!  if you had asked her WHY she doesn't WANT a boyfriend, she MIGHT have
said "because I hate it when people try to tell me what to do."  how so? "well,
one time I went shopping and this asshole was trying to tell me what I should
wear..."  you could have avoided telling her the WRONG THING!  you are
DEFINITELY FLYING BLIND HERE!  you are throwing out BULLSHIT conversation
because you have NO IDEA what direction to take her in.

>And then when she starts talking, she stops listening to what I say, it is
very
>hard to direct conversation with this girl, and sometimes, I will say 
>something (ie. Redirect to talking about a GF, or a past horny 
>experience), and she will stop, (seem to) listen, and then continue on 
>her unrelated subject (ie. Annoyances in the office) as if I hadn't
>said anything.  

like I said... you should have REMEMBERED that she is a talker and NOT a
listener.  TALKERS don't give a FUCK what you have to say, but will tolerate
you flapping your jaws because YOU asked them out.  ACT ACCORDINGLY!

>I tried to find other things and values, about her to anchor on to, but it 
>was hard, a bit like HB hotpants. I couldnt get any values out with this 
>chick no matter how I tried. When I am with some girls, I find they 
>answer the questions and talk the proper way to help you pick them 
>up.this chick wasnt doing that at all.. I asked her what she wanted for 
>herself in the future, and she said "nothing special".

so then you said "so... you'd be satisfied with good sex then?"

PLAY IT AS IT UNFOLDS... LESS FORM!

>Then I asked her if 
>she values excitement in her life (figuring, maybe this was her style, 
>with all the BFs and all),l and she said no, she just wants ordinary
>life, 
>and for people to not to worry about her. Then she contracticted 
>herself, and said that she didn't like boring either.

do you realize that "do you value excitement in your life" is a useless
question compared to "what do you value?"  it is a CLOSED-ENDED question.  yes
or no.  it requres NO THINKING on her part.  she can choose from yes or no and
satisfy your question without meta-stating and therefore telling you ANYTHING
useful from deep inside.  that's why she was floundering... she was making the
shit up in the fly.

>She liked design (ie. 
>Furniture, lamps..etc) and lived in London to study this. I tried to get 
>the good feelings she had in London, and she liked it because she didnt 
>like Japan.

smart :)  now you're getting somewhere

>I asked her if sometimes she was lonely (trying to model myself to fill 
>that gap), and she replied no, she had many friends and everything was 
>fine, and she didn't want a BF.

DUH!  do you know how chicks are STARVING for boyfriends?  for her to say "I
don't want a boyfriend" means that she is NOT LONELY!  it also says a lot more
about her.  you should have said in the beginning... "that's fascinating...
you're the first woman I ever met that doesn't want a boyfriend... how did you
come to that decision?" get more information AND make her feel unique at the
same time.

you are STILL FLYING BLIND!  taking SHOTS IN THE DARK!

>Now at this point, I think I know what she wants, an unttached no BF 
>night of sex. However, because she is so self directing in the 
>conversations, I am finding it very hard to get her in that horny
>state.

a chick like this is CONSTANTLY ready for sex... whether she appears horny or
not.  in this case, I think opportunity was more important than state.  you
should have walked her to a romantic location in your area so she could get a
clue and get with the program.  I didn't make any moves on this chick, but
walked her into Central Park and laid down in the grass with her... she KNEW
what time it was then  :)

>There were other problems (see my analysis below).
>
>The other issue, is the tongue-down,. In Japan, chicks are very 
>embarrassed to do kissing/tonguing in public. And in Tokyo, short of 
>your place, or a hotel, there are not a whole lot of dark corners you
>can 
>do this (you just cannot believe how crowded and full of people Tokyo 
>is), so although I wanted to do thiss earlier, the opportunity just did
>not 
>come up where I could.

if you had kissed her when you met her (I don't know that you didn't) you would
have had a test as to whether whe was interested in making out with you or not.

>So I ask her to my place after supper. She asks how far it is, and I
>say 
>about 5 minutes, we hold hands again, and she comes, no problem.

what did you say to her precisely? "do you want to come home with me?" it kind
of matters as far as what she was expecting when you got there.

>I remark about the flowers on the trees how they are nice, and she says 
>its boring, same in Japan every year (as I said, she didn't help me to 
>pick her up at all).

yes she did.  you should have said "oh really?  where is it different?" 
INSTANT meta-state as she DREAMS about places that look prettier and change
with the seasons blah blah blah.  she will TELL YOU the place she loves and you
can move on from there.

>On the way to the house I also ask her if she is a 
>good cook (to set up a supper date for the future possibly at my place
>if tonight doesnt progress.

dude, you have done everything right... if tonight doesn't progress (due to her
fault that is, not your LACK of playing her correctly :p )  you should really
consider one-and-doneing her.  everything is "right" here.  there is NO REASON
she should turn down sex with you... at this point  :)

>She says "NO she hates cooking"..

do you see a pattern here?  everything you ask her she negates.  you should
have asked her "so... do you hate sex?"

>Now we 
>are walking to my place, holding hands.  My plan is to get her home, 
>and just try to tongue her down and lay her. I will try to just kiss
>her as 
>soon as we get in, and set the tone from there, that has worked before. 
>
>But not this time. As soon as we get in, she goes on her own to see the 
>rooms downstairs, so I couldn't even get her before taking off my 
>shoes.

hahahaha where the fuck was she going?  is she a professional thief?  did you
tell her to go down there?  I have never had a woman FEEL FREE to roam my house
the FIRST TIME she came over  :)

>Here is where I make my other big fuckup I think. I turn on the 
>lights, but they are dim, and I play soft nice music. This is usually 
>lethal with chicks who are a bit into me at this stage, but I realize
>now, 
>that if a chick is just into sex, and not into me, it will have a
>really 
>creepy feel. I think this is what happened (and happened with sparkles 
>too). For chicks into sex, but not romantically into me, the lights
>should 
>be up, and more uplifting music (maybe Dire Straights or something 
>like that).

BANG!  BANG BANG!  BANG!  RICOCHET-BANG!


>I think she felt a little scared with the surroundings,
>even 
>though there was no question that I intended to fuck her when we got 
>there, as the kino (minus the tongue down) was pretty good, even 
>though the conversation was not.. 

if you say so... I haven't seen a single sign yet from your post that any
AGREEMENTS were made between the two of you... lots of conrontations though.

>Now at this point, I try to get her to shut up so I can work on her, I
>try 
>to take her hand, like we had been doing all night with no problem, and 
>she is getting chilly now, and blabbing about work stuff, and some guy 
>in Italy she was seeing, or "is" seeing but hasn't seen..etc.

uh oh... all of a sudden she wants to talk about "boyfriends" that's not good
AT ALL!  matter of fact she shouldn't be talking AT ALL at this point  :)

>I try to anchor good feelings from that experience like NYC said, but it is
not 
>working.

anchoring feelings from other men is SO FAR AHEAD of the stage you're at now
that if you had to go back that far when she's ALREADY IN YOUR HOUSE... you are
in a BAD position!

>She is blabbing, but not listening, even though eye contactg is 
>very good. She did say something important near the end though. She 
>said that often, it is good not to talk, and let the feelings take
>over.

what was the context? still the other guy?  I am confused here.  she wasn't
talking about YOU and HER right?

>I hear that, and shut up, and try to get her to shut up (which is hard).
>I try to take her hand again, and do a massage after getting her to realize
>hw stressful she has been. She takes my hand away, and gets really chilly, 
>then says she has to go, and leaves.

wow... FROSTY dude!

>As NYC said, this time I dont say thank you for nice evening or anything like
that.

Thank you :)

>I make a good attempt 
>to get her to stay, but then she leaves out the door. I don't bother to 
>walk her to the station, considering her bad behavior.

nah... fuck her  :)

>Then, I decide to call up another chick (Boatbabe) I also met recently 
>on a boat. This is where I make a stunning realization. This chick, I 
>have already gotten to attach to me by my talking. She listens, and 
>interacts well, and it is easy to guide her thoughts by my talking,
>which 
>I couldn't do at all with Tubby. Then I also reallize, that chicks like 
>Boatbabe (evening report on her will come out after our date on 
>Friday), I can usually lay and get feeling relaxed. These are chicks
>that 
>are lonely, and looking for emotional/personal support rather than just 
>simply sex, my system lays them almost every time. 

that means you need a new system for the sex-me chicks... or better yet,
practice more so you meet more personality types and learn to play them as
their personalities evolve.

>But chicks with no attachment, who just want sex, or fun, like Tubby 
>or Sparkles, I often fumble, because I try to get all this emotional
>stuff going..WHICH THEY DONT WANT! (or my assumption anyways).

good assumption... use it for next time instead of ASSUMING that all chicks
fall for the same scheme  :)

>I often fuck up these lays although they should be easier. Probably, had
>I just taken Tubby home directly, and ordered a Pizza, I could have laid 
>her probably. This one was a bit like some of NYC's, where he says he 
>has the lay, but then when he opens his mouth, he loses it with that 
>chick. 

not really.  I see what you mean, but you failed to find out how to get
information out of her.  I posted on a chick I called "lost cause" because she
stonewalled me also.  She wouldn't give me any info that I could use, so when I
was ready to leave, I went for KINO shooting in the dark and she rejected me. 
SHAQ'ED!  of course she did because I never got a CHANCE to get her to the
state I needed her in!

what you should have done was recognize this as a personality flaw and
considered ending the date early.  I understand the idea of trying anything you
can until a chick runs screaming from your house, but I have recently taken the
position that if I can't play her RIGHT, I'm not going to play her at all.  if
I see things that I don't like... LJBF, instantly... you COULD have taken her
OUT to a bar and used her as a female wing and met other chicks.  that would
have been much mor productive with a flaky chick like that.  you need to be
more open to change in your style based on the information you receive... or
lack thereof.

>I also noticed, that this always happens only with chicks who come on 
>strong to you early on (like sparkles, or tubby, or a couple others
>last 
>year). NYC, said that it was because they didn't expect a lay when they 
>came over (sparkles), but in this case tonight, I am sure she knew what 
>to expect when we got there.

how are you SURE of that?  what behavior did you display that told her "I am a
MAN and I plan to FUCK YOU TODAY!"  when?  I just met a chick for lunch whose
number I dug up from a year ago and called her cold.  I ASSUMED that she would
think that I had called her because I wanted to fuck her.  when I saw her, it
was clear that she wasn't considering sex at all AND that she always goes out
for lunch with friends and never has ATTRACTION come into the picture.

I am not sure she expected you to try to fuck her and if she did, I think she
changed her mind along the way.  I think you didn't display enough aggression
at all.  you were HOPING that taking a girl to your house sends the signal that
you intend to fuck her and that by going, she agrees to it... ask Mike Tyson 
:)

>But she wasn't comfortable and relaxed, 
>which is what caused her to run out around 9:15 with some lame 
>excuse. So, from now on, chicks who come on strong early on, get a 
>new approach than the "romantic ones" like boat chick, which I got 
>hammered down now.

stop right there... you will fuck up AGAIN if you make a new category... you
have to build the chick as she tells you about herself, then play her as a
unique individual.

>So, what is a good routine to lay a chick who wants a no obligation lay 
>(it seems), and get her comfortable?

Kino ASAP.  PERIOD.

>Possibly, more joking (if this chick 
>would shut her mouth though), maybe a drinking game when we got to 
>my place, rock music rather than piano music, and the lights up until 
>the action started?
>Opinions guys, how do you do this?
>
>There is the danger though, that pushing too much too quickly (Ie 
>taking her home for pizza right away), could freak out a chick right 
>away, and also get her to freeze up/run out pacing is hard when you 
>dont know the chick well yet and what to expect..

if you would stop shooting in the dark you would be fine.  the chick I went to
lunch with I FULLY INTENDED to seduce her and fuck her after lunch.  when I saw
that she was not interested and that I would have a really tough time
convincing her AND that she was much better as a pivot AND that I was in a
downtown area with MANY chicks, we called it a day right after lunch.  she said
she had to meet a girlfriend to go shopping and I said ok then... I'm going to
the Video Store and we parted company.  I COULD HAVE tried to get some sex from
her, but it was NOT worth the effort AND I would have been flying blind if I
tried anything, so I saved her for another day when perhaps loaction or ALCOHOL
may win the day.  either way, I am still LJBF with her, so I can call her and
tell her to bring her girlfriends out to hang with me and my wing.  she is much
more valuable for social proof than one HIT-OR-MISS fuck attempt  :)

>and especially, if
>they arent helping you to seduce her, like this chick was acting. 
>It is like some chicks dont want to be seduced, they just want to be 
>fucked, and trying to seduce them first, will chill them out 
>emotionally. but then how do you get to the fuck, if you dont do the 
>seduction first especially if they behave like she did tonight (almost 
>EXACTLY like sparkles behaves as soon as she got in the door). But 
>then other times, with other chicks, if you dont seduce them first,
>then 
>they freak out when you try for the fuck.hummm. Maniac is stumped 
>on this one..
>
>Anyways, good learning experience, a throwaway chick, so no 
>problem, but Maniac has to learn how to bag these easier "want just the 
>lay" chicks.I think it takes a totally different approach than I am
>used 
>to doing.
>
>Opinions on to why I fumbled and what to do different next time 
>welcome!
>
>Maniac High
>http://www.pickupguide.com

I actually forgot this was a throwaway.  this chick is used to taking whatever
she can get.  that whole wine her and dine her shit she NEVER GETS!  you should
have immediately gone for kino OR talked sex to her and gotten her
interested... if she ran... FUCK HER!  she ran ANYWAY!  and that was after
wasting HOURS of your time to boot!  :)






From mrsex4unyc@aol.comedr4d Wed Sep  8 19:08:17 1999
From: mrsex4unyc@aol.comedr4d (MrSex4uNYC)
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast
Subject: Re: Evening Report: Maniac FUMBLES Ms. Tubby but makes a discovery!
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In article <01bef9c3$a2587e40$2528b8a1@chillpil>, "Ðanno"
 writes:

>"I'm all for Womens Lib so I am going to LET you make a choice...we can
>either go eat at this fantastic restaurant I know or we can order Pizza
>from my place.

that's actually really good.

this gives HER the option of taking you home or not and lets you know where you
stand in the date.  if she looks interested in going home, but still picks the
restaurant or if she takes long in deciding at all, you're looking good.

good idea  :)