From: Maniac High’s Seduction Website


Report by Maniac High; commentary by mrsex4unyc

Subject: Re: Outing report: Ms. Black Hotpants; golddigger evasion; 
nd anti supplication evasive 
>Outing report: Ms. Black Hotpants; golddigger evasion; and anti
>supplication..then detonation!..a dating disaster (for her! ;-) )

I read ahead.  This was a dating _disaster_ all right... FOR YOU!  details

>Hi all;
>Today’s outing is with Miss HB  Hotpants,22 Y.O, a ‘9’ or ‘10’
>(one of the chicks from 15 phone numbers and 4 kiss closes), who (to my
>surprise), *did* show up for her date, to my surprise. 

There would be NO surprise at a chick showing up for a date if you were SURE
that you had demonstrated personality and value to her when you met that placed
you above the average Joe.  If you were sure that you made a connection with
her that made her interested in seeing YOU again (not just going out on a date)
you would not have been surprised that she came out because it would have been
in her own best interests.

>Okay, HB hotpants was a  golddigger chick it turns out. I did blow her
>out half way through the date as a reuslt (was very funny; see below!),
>but still the advice I am looking here, is how to do quick detection
>and early removal of such chicks (in hind site, there were a few clues,
>but this could be done better I think), to minimize the loss of
>time/effort money, or to get her to respect you in a different way at
>first so she doesn’t even try shit like this (I can say though, from
>what I can tell, I was the first guy I think to not supplicate and blow
>her out like this..more on that later…as I said, this story, though not
>a lay, is an awesome learning opporutinty in its own way…).
>First, the summary (and then the story, from start to end). The chick,
>was an HB, very cute. We had 

STOP RIGHT THERE!  Why are you DATING a chick that you're not FUCKING?  You
fucked up from the beginning.  As I mentioned earlier, you didn't sufficiently
demonstrate personality to her, so why was she going out with you?  To do
stuff... at YOUR EXPENSE!  She did not come out to kiss you, not to hold YOUR
hand.  Her being with you had nothing to do with YOU!  I am not attacking you,
but you need to be able to detect where you stand with a chick, and certainly
NOT dating them before you fuck them.  Ask them to MEET YOU somewhere for
COFFEE.  At the most, you buy them A coffee and lose whatever, 3 bucks getting
to know what she is willing to give you.  After that, fuck her THEN take her
out as a _reward_ for good behavior.  What were you rewarding her with a movie
and dinner for?  For accepting your invitation to come outside her house? For
gracing YOU with her presence, she deserves stuff?  NO.  Until you demonstrate
value and make the connection with her, you can ASSUME that anyone that asked
her to go out that night would have had her with them... and they would have
been paying too!

>We decided, we would then go
>to supper, and then go drinking after.  

That's a whole lot of time and money to be spent on a chick that you don't know
ANYTHING about. Chekc in the newsletters or something about why dating chicks
before fucking them is like gambling.

>Allright, the beginning, I met Hotpants chick in a bar with Mr. Smooth
>last weekend. Read the details of "15 phone numbers and 4 kiss closes"
>for how I got her, and what happened that day. Okay, now one detail I
>forgot, which turns out is important. At one night in the bar, when we
>were holding each other..etc, she wanted a pizza, so she got up and
>waited for me, and we went to the other end to get Pizza for everyone.
>We ordered it, and when the pizza came, she didn’t gesture anything
>about paying money. I hadn’t thought about it, as it was for everyone
>anyways, so I paid it and we went down. She also asked for a drink, but
>we had lots of tickets on the table from the admission, so that was
>fine, it didn’t really cost anything.

You are ABSOLUTELY RIGHT!  Since she was standing there with you, she SHOULD
have gestured to pay half of it or at least for the portion she planend to eat
(with the intention that everyone else chip in when you get back to the table) 
You should have acted like you didn't bring your wallet by accident and told
her "Pay for it and I'll give you my half when we get back to the table"  She
would have meta-stated right out while she figured out a way to get you to pay
for everything.  You would have seen her looking confused and you would NOT
have seen her get out any money.  She would have told you to go back and get
your wallet.  You then would have known what kind of chick this is and only to
invite her to your house for DRINKS and FUCKING!

>Okay, fast forward to this afternoon. We meet; she said that she wanted
>to see a movie, but I could choose, so we saw the flick, and I bought
>her ticket (is this okay guys? Seems reasonable I think).

NO THIS IS NOT OK!  It was her idea to see the movie.  You and she are not
fucking.  There is no reason that you should pay for ANYTHING of hers.  If you
went out with a male friend of yours, would you pay for HIM to get in the
theater?  NO.  Until she is putting out, treat her like one of the fellas.  If
she wants shit paid for, let her know the fucking rules.  I only pay for shit
for chicks that suck my dick on a regular basis (or whatever it is that you
like from chicks)  She can then either get with the program, get her fucking
money out and pay since she doesn't want to sex you, or get the fuck out of
dodge.  I'll tell you what... if a chick would rather pay for a movie than
agree to fucking later, dump her right there.  Fuck the movie... go pick up
other chicks.

>There was an hour before the movie, so we had some time. She said in
>the meantime, she wanted to go shopping (I say fine). We head to a dept
>store, and she starts looking at chick stuff (uh oh, supplication
>evasive action needed), so after she buys somthing, I tell her I need a
>guys necklace, and I want to get that. She says fine, and says that she
>will follow me. From then, till the movie, we now shop for my stuff.
>That is good, now I am leading her again.

I don't understand the usefulness of this shopping business.  Maybe you are
thinking this has something to do with pacing and leading?  Not that I would
ever be in this situation since I don't like to gamble with my money at all,
but if I were...  I would have taken her someplace where I could get my hands
on her and start massaging her or SOMETHING getting me closer to the goal of
having my dick in her mouth.  A park, a bar, the movie theater bathroom...
SOMETHING!  If she wasn't interested in petting or kissing or whatever... dump
her, go find other chicks.  Do you know how many chicks you could have met in
the hour and a half that you watched that movie?

>As we walk around, I start my repetroire of questions, to start to get
>her talking about passion and guy stuff.  It is very hard, when I ask
>her her favorite actor, she say no one particular. I ask her her
>favorite clubs, she says everywhere I like. It was like this, for most
>things I asked, so I couldn’t get an anchor in, or get anything

If she is not a talker, she is a listener.  As soon as she didn't want to tell
you shit, you should have told her thta you have a friend that... and told her
the story about the chick you tied up.  If you can't elicit feelings, use
quotes or any other style to MAKE HER think about fucking and sucking.

>She did respond okay to me touching her now and then though with no

Not good enough.  Touching her now and then.  You have her ISOLATED.  You are
in SEX MODE from the second you pick her up or the two of you meet.  Touching
her now and then at this stage is way to opassive.  The only point of asking
her out is getting physical with her.  Otherwise, stay on the phone.  It's like
Greg said.  He sets it all up on AOL from the privacy of his home, then meets
them after it is all set up. It's too late at this point for all that high
school, can I touch your breast shit.

>Before the film starts, she asks me what I am doing this evening, and I
>say I haven’t made particular plans yet.

VERY VERY VERY bad sign.  What does she mean what are you doing this evening? 
To me that says "I have no intention of spending any more time with you than we
discussed".  That's ridiculous.  If she had really been into YOU, she would
have been hoping and praying that you didn't have anything else to do tonight,
so she could be with YOU for as much time as you would give her.

>She tells me she has an
>appointment with her chick friend, and would I like to join then (this
>was strange, I posted a thread a while ago, about what to do when
>chicks brings their friends uninvited, but there was no real
>conclusion, except not to supplicate and be the nice guy who pays for
>everything for her and her friends, as in such a situation there is
>zero chance to lay the chick, chicks dont lay guys who supplicate).
>But this was different (it seemed), she said she already had the
>appointment, (why she booked an appointment the same day as a date I
>dunno, though I guess now I do ;-) ), and was asking me to join them.
>So I said fine, I will join the both of them.

TOTALLY FUCKED UP!  You HAD her isolated.  Now you are going back into the
situation where the chicks don't want to look like sluts in front of their
friends.  I would never have gone for this.  First she asks what you are
doing... implying that she is going to do something without you, then she tells
you what she is going to do without you!  Again, this would never happen to me
because by this point in the date, I would have been all over her to the point
where she would not have been interested in meeting her girlfriend, or she
would have left me alone.  A date is for physical contact.  If you had been
more aggressive, you would have either scared her off or made her get with it. 
I also don't feel from your posts (though I could be wrong since I don't know
you) that you are aggressive enough to pull TWO of these chicks at the same
time.  Not attacking your skills, but you were having a hard enough time with
this one, and you were now ADDING another one in that you enver even met?  You
are ADDING AN OBSTACLE!  You may as well have conceded not fucking her right
there IMO.

>We watch the movie, it was okay. The film ends, and she goes to the
>bathroom (without asking, just she goes…I notice this is strange). 

It is not strange.  WHO ARE YOU?  See what you get for not demonstrating
personality.  You are the money-source.  There is no reason to tell your
pocketbook or wallet when you are going to the bathroom... you just go.

>Then we head out, and she fails my arm holding a-la french promenade test
>(she lightly rejects it). My experience here is that this is a very
>tiny intrusion, and chicks who reject this, I never get to lay. This is
>very bad, and I get concerned.

Now you're getting it :)

>We get to the bus to go from Shibuya (where the film was), to Roppongi,
>where she said she was meeting her friend. She gets on the bus, and
>here is my first fuckup which I notice (maybe?). She gets on the bus
>and waits for me to pay the busfare. So I did (bad..ouch…though at
>first glance I figure I shouldn’t’ think about paying bus fare, it is
>only $1.50 anyways, but the gesture (and that it was too cheap for her,
>should have clued me in). 

I said earlier... don't pay for ANYTHING.  That bitch has a job.  She has
enough money to buy miniskirts and go shopping earlier, but she doesn't have
money for the bus?  She is treating you like a suitor, but you're not getting
any of the benefits of being a suitor.  She has constantly been playing you for
a sucker.

>OKAY; MOMENT OF TRUTH #1…how would you guys
>have handled this (remember, you are on a bus, in  front of the driver,
>and folks behind you in line, so scene making here is not really
>possible. Only thing I could think of is tell her, she has to pay to
>ride the bus (at which point, it probably is best I just get off the
>bus, since the date is dead anyways…).

Pay for your fare and walk to the back and SIT THE FUCK DOWN.  She has to
either come up with the cash or get off the bus.  If she asks you to pay for
it... refer to the rules I mentioned about paying for the movie.. she's trapped
again.  PAY OR PLAY!

>Now, before, you jump on me for supplicating, the reason I did this, is
>cuz a couple months ago, another chick did the exact same thing, and I
>did lay her that night anyways…so I figured that maybe it was okay
>since its only $1.50, and it got me laid once anyways.. So this is no
>so clear cut, like the arm-ala french promenade test.

Yeah it is.  Treated like a suitor, but you don't get any kissing, sucking or
fucking.  It is definitely a test.  You pay if she plays.  PERIOD.

>Okay, so we ride the bus. Now an amusing thing happens. A guy calls her
>on her phone, who I guess tried to get into her panties a few weeks
>ago, but failed. 

AHA!  Why is her phone on if she is so interested in being with you?  I always
have my cel on.  People call me for stuff and I change plans mid-stream.  When
a chick is annoyed enough to ask me who called or if anything came up, I can
tell that she wants my time for herself.  If I feel the same way, then I turn
it off to show her that I am committed to her... for the time being :)

>She tells him he was rude (guess, he walked her home,
>andthen didn’t want to leave after she insisted), and wont give up. I
>gesture to her to give me the phone, so I take it, and say "Hello; and
>the guy says hello; and I say, sorry; she’s taken!";; that was funny.

Yeah, pretty funny.

Now, when this SAMURAI hacks you to fucking pieces for mouthing off to him,
we'll see how funny it was :(
You don't know who was on the other line.  That could have been some mob boss. 
He might have known where she was eating dinner that night.  She may have had
plans to fuck him after you paid for her night on the town.  You also used
yourself as a neg-hit on the other guy, so now he will do more work to get the
chick than before.  I will say again, you put yourself in the place of the
suitor, and you got NO BENEFIT WHATSOEVER!  You even said "she's taken".  You
had no claim on her at all at that point because you were not physical enough
to tell what you were going to get from her.

>Otherwise, conversation is good, she says that she was out everynight
>this week, and it was fun (she was wearing a super micro mini BTW,
>today, and I have to say it was very nice), and drank a lot.. She did
>hand shaking, and stuff; it was good.

Get a clue!  The chick is out every night.  This is no home-body.  She is not
going to be impressed by anything that you are doing for her tonight, because
another guy did the same routine last night and another the night before.  It's
like when guys get to fuck drunk chicks.  She fucked you because she was horny
and you were there.  It was nothing that you did yourself.  All this parading
around and movies and buses and dinners are throwaways.  All you needed to do
is sit her down for coffee and captura and lead her imagination.

>We get to Roppongi, where we meet her friend, and Hotpants HB asks me
>where I would like to go eat (this was odd I thought), so I pick an
>italian place I like nearby. We go there, she picks up her friend on
>the way. Her friend is cute, nice, but more shy. Seems like a nice
>We have a nice supper and talk, I do my palm reading pattern, and that
>works well, get some hand holding and all that. Then, something
>happens, which tells me what’s going to come next (that this date is
>done, and they are about to be blown out…and I was write).

Again, it is too late in the game for gimmicks and patterns.  You saw episode 1
by now.  Anakin got to the enemy cruiser on autopilot, then R2 cut him loose
and he blew up the ship on his own.  Eventually, you have to work off of
natural skill and instinct.  Now that you have added this other chick, you
REALLY should have been concentrating on disarming obstacles.

>We were joking about her drinking nights, and I joked lightly, that she
>goes meeting guys, and has them buy her drinks. She said yes, in a
>smirky kind of way. Now I was expecting trouble, because, this means
>that she probably was expecting me to buy her and her friend (who I
>didn’t invite) supper. I get ready for the blowup and how to handle it.
>She notices my face change, and asks me is something wrong. I snap out
>of it after a moment, and get normal, and running the patterns, and
>stuff again, and things are normal (hey, I might just be wrong, and
>everything will be I stay positive, but prepare for the

Back on autopilot huh?

>Supper finishes, and now the blowup happens. The bill comes, and I tell
>everyone how much they owe (actually, my intention was to tell everyone
>how much they owe, and then when my chick HB Hotpants took her money
>out, I would quietly gesture that she (but not her friend) didn’t have
>to pay (why should I pay for her friend? I didn’t invite her!).

weak weak weak.  Didn't you see where this ceased to be a date?  I mean it
never was a date, REALLY.  She was hanging out with you and milking you.  As
soon as she added her friend in it was really over.  Everyone needed to pay for
her own shit.  PERIOD.  

>But, then they tried to tell me they had no money (I figure that HB
>hotpants, told her friend that I would be paying for everything). At
>this point, I knew it was blown and didn’t care anymore; I asked them
>again that they have to pay their share; and the guy was waiting. They
>said they didn’t have any money.

Look how you got played!  hahaha didn't you say that just earlier you WENT
SHOPPING WITH HER?  Did she mention to you when you were shopping that she
spent her last dollar on what she bought?  If not, she was lying.  What kind of
bitches are these anyway that come outside without any money?

You SHOULD have told the waiter to go back where he came from and come back
with seperate checks.  You should have itemized your portion and paid your own
check and walked out, leaving those bitches there to rot.  They either would
have washed the fucking chopsticks all night or paid for their shit.

>Now I paid the bill (not to supplicate to the chicks; as I blew them
>out instantly and in their faces once we got outside, boy were they
>embarrassed…, but it is a restaurant I frequent often, my reputation is
>important there and I didn’t want to make such a scene in front of the
>staff and patrons, as I do wish to return again, and be treated well as
>I always am, when I go there with someone else.).

Your rep ios fine as long as you pay for what YOU bought... no more!

>We got out the door, and I let her have it totally. Her friend was at
>first confused, and then horrified as I explained what her friend at
>just done. I told her that I wasn’t an easy guy, and wasn’t going to
>supplicate to her like this, just because she tramps around in a mini,
>and although the friend seemed like a nice person, I wasn’t going to be
>expected to be the bank, and pay for her and all of her friends

but that's EXACTLY what happened isn't it?

>I went on to tell her, that I paid the bill only for respect of the
>restaurant as I go often, and that she did an bad, selfish thing, and
>that I was going home, and they can go do whatever they want without
>me; that I wouldn’t stand for this sort of thing, and I have enough
>esteem to just say no. I told her, I have no problem to pay for a date
>when I take a girl out, but I have a big problem if she expects to
>bring all her uninvited friends and have me pay for them too

If it had been a DATE you would have had a good point there.

>HB hotpants (who probably is used to supplication, and never had this
>happen before), was shocked, and her friend was horrified at what she
>saw happened, and my massive mood change from inside.

Let's see:


you see how your money was already spent by the time you "caught" these chicks?
You could have cut her off at the movies, or even better, never promised her
movies and shit in order to LURE HER into hanging out with you.  If your
company is good enough, you can go somewhere free and quiet where you can get
refreshments and have a good time together.  It's that simple.  Does that make

>I told her (and her friend heard); that I was a good, guy, and always
>treated a woman well when I was with them, but  I would not let myself
>be taken advatange of, and if she thought so, then she was too cheap a
>girl for me, and she could go find someone else to be her bank account
>cuz it sure wasn’t going to be me. I also said that she might think she
>is so cute that she thinks she can make a guy supplicate to her all
>night and pay for everything for her and her friends, but with me it
>wasn’t so, and she wasn’t that cute that she could pull that with me,
>and even if she was, I was a not an easy guy, I don’t supplicate like
>the other guys she meets, and it wouldn’t work with me.

did she ITEMIZE the amount of money you spent on her (and on yourself because
you were out with her) as a counter point?

>Her friend just stood there in shock as I chewed out HB hotpants on the
>street in front of the restaurant; probably never having seen such a
>demonstration of anti supplication in her life (and the respect I
>showed for the restaurant, but not to HB hotpants after her deed). Her
>friend probably never saw a guy tell HB Hotpants off like this,
>thinking she was so cute no guy would ever dare… Well I had no problem
>doing so.
>Then I said bye; turned around; and left..

Should have happened at the movie.  I guarantee you she would NEVER have paid
to get in.  She also would not have fucked you that night, because she had
plans to go clubbing with her girlfriend that night like every other night. 
Now you kow how it works.  No dates before FUCKING!

>Okay, a couple things…first;; guys…look, the reason she was expecting
>this, is because probably every other guy she ever went out with, when
>faced with this situation; supplicated to HB Hotpants because she is
>cute. But look!; once you lose…she will never fuck

You have demonstrated this... but all is not lost.  If she calls you after your
tantrum, she is crawling back to you in a very bad position.  You can then
choose not to speak to her again as punishment, or make her your fucky-sucky
slave so she can make amends.  Ever is a long time.

>And when you do this (let a chick try and steamroll you
>this way..even if she is a 10), you will lose all your money, your
>time, AND SHE WILL NEVER FUCK YOU! I know this, and that is why I
>instantly cut her out, and cut her down, once she tried this. 

Not exactly.  You instantly cut her out as soon as you FIGURED OUT she was
trying this.  She was getting over all night.  You should have remained calm
and told them to walk with you and taken them directly ro a fucking ATM and
demanded your money back.  If they didn't produce it, THEN you should have
thrown the tantrum.  The only things you escaped paying for that night = all
three bus fare to the club, all three club entry cover charge, all three drinks
all night, cab to the friend's house where the HB would have gotten out too and
you would have gotten a kiss on the cheek goodnight, and your lonely cab ride
home alone.

>We never
>went to the second bar, (which she probably expected me to pay for too,
>for her and her friend(s?) ), so just I got straight out of there after
>I finished chewing her out, and embarassing her in front of everyone
>and her friend in the street in front of the restaurant.


>The lessons here..
>HB hotpants was (genuinely I think), expecting that I would let myself
>get taken advanatage of, like every other guy, and she was going to
>show how great a guy I was to all her friends, and how she could get me
>to supplicate for her and do her beck and call because she is so cute…
>Heck, maybe she even thinks this is (egads!) acceptable behavior, just
>because so many guys supplicate to her that she got used to it! So,
>lesson..supplication is bad..BAD, don’t do this. You ruin it for
>yourself, and the next guys after that, cuz she gets used to all the
>supplication, and not having to fuck for it..

Now you're learning :)  By the way, her behavior is completely acceptable. 
Anyone that falls for her shit has himself to blame.  She is using what she's
got to get what she wants.  Nothing wrong with that.  Just make sure you kow
what you're doing when you play in the big leagues... or at least learn the
signs to recognize the big-time female players.

>Anyways, back to the story…(well, I tell you, now her friends *KNOW*
>how great a guy I am, cuz I stood up to her, right in her face, in
>front of her friends..and told her off, and why, and that she was too
>cheap for me, and I had no respect for her at all; anymore…I am miles
>above her in rank now, and if her friend ever sees me again, boy will
>she respect me (I am pretty sure HB’s  friend was not in on this game,
>just the unknowning victim HB Hotpants’ misguided showoff attempt;
>judging from her confusion, and reaction once I explained it)..just she
>wanted to show me off. .so now anyways, her friend knows that I *AM* a
>great guy, respect a girl, but I dont take shit and I don’t supplicate,
>and I will respect the restaurant, if not them! So in the end, I won…

won what?  I am serious.  Please elaborate how you spent your money and yelled
at a Japanese chick at the end of the night and that is a win?  I agree that
you won from the time you stopped losing money to this female player, but I
can't see how you WON this situation, except for the fact that you have a
really good set of things to look for to see where a chick is playing you for
money, and we all get to learn from your situation.

>Okay, now, time to learn from this..your opinions guys..realitically,
>what are some tests, I can put on a chick to find this out very early
>on; with a very high accuracy, before I waste an afternoon, and do the
>movie thing/supper. (I know there were some signs, above; but as I
>said, they were not clear cut, and I did shag chicks in similar
>situations (except for the supper thing…I never ever shagged a chick
>who by surprise decided she wanted to bring a friend to supper).

you don't need TESTS.  Just watch what's going on around you.  When she goes to
a cookie store, does she get out her puse and pay 35 cents for a cookie?  Or
does she cuddle on your arm and say "buy me a cookie?" smiling at you and all
cute, then forgetting about you after you buy it.  The most I will buy a chick
is a coffee at the shop I tell her to meet me at.  If she doesn't offer to buy
the next round, or pay me for hers, she'd fucking MARKED.

>Ideas…opinions. Constructive comments on how I can do this better the
>next time (no flames please), and other ways of detection/detterance…
>Finally, my major fuckup, is that somehow, I should have let her known
>early on, and subtlly, that I don’t supplicate, and not to even try
>such a stunt with me. I want her to know very early on, that she is
>meeting me because she potentially wants to fuck me (or is willing to),
>and that there is no possibility whatsoever that I will supplicate to
>her like all the other guys do..
>How do I do this guys?

No dating before fucking.  More phone conversation.  More personality
demonstration.  More connection creation.  You have a good grasp of the basic
rules!  Use them :)

>What could I have done (early on), to have her respect me (before the
>dinner blow up), and not think about even trying a stunt like she
>tried…so that I could have shagged her after all (I mean hey, she
>*does* shag guys sometimes).
>(so weekend tally… 1 fuck; 1 blowup….okay I guess….)
>Opinions guys?  (oh. Remember, .this is a learning experience, and
>since there was not a lay at the end, I already know there were
>fuckups…so lets be constructive on the comments/criticisms…)..
>okay…let’er rip!
>Maniac High

Great post maniac :)

I got a lot of practice cutting this bitch up while replying.  The stuff you
put here set off BLARING alarms for me.  I have seen all that shit... including
"buy me a cookie".  You'd better believe I told that bitch BUY YOURSELF A
COOKIE!  and the "date" continued as if it was never mentioned :)