"Ross Jeffries" is known in seduction circles for a course
he sells called "Speed Seduction (tm)" and a mail list he
runs for people who bought products from him and his company.

Read below for my experience with "Ross Jeffries" and members
of his organization (Riker, etc). After that, read what others 
had to say about "Ross Jeffries" from the alt.seduction.fast 
newsgroup, and then decide if you still want to do business
with him..

You have been warned..

If you still want to learn about the techniques Ross Jeffries
refers to and don't want to give him your money, you can read 
the newsgroup 'alt.seduction.fast' (go to www.talkway.com and 
read it there if you dont have USENET on your PC), and get most 
of the information there for free, as well as also use this 
and other websites linked from here, and you can save your 
money.

Also, buy the book "Trance-formations" by Bandler and 
Grinder  (ISBN 0-911226-22-2). It is old, but, most of the 
information that Ross Jeffries' "Speed Seduction" is based on, 
originates from the material in this text, and it is a lot 
less expensive.


Okay, the story now...
---


Read how Maniac got thrown off Ross's SS list!!!
990923

[Maniac's confrontation with "Riker" on the Ross 
Jeffries SS-List!, ... Ross lets us all down.... ;-( ]


You be the judge, I let the facts stand for themselves
and dont plan to comment more on any of this [I am
flabbergasted, and have no idea what more I could say
actually..]..

here is all the details below, nothing
excepted (I blank out my personal address/info for this
website though). 

Personally, now knowing what I know, I wouldn't buy
anything more from the man, I hope you wont either.
This is so fucking dissappointing I cannot believe
it... The material may be good, but the man treated 
me with contempt...fucking incredible..

I trusted Ross Jeffries (who up to now I had the 
highest respect for) to act appropriately to the 
following, do the right thing regarding a misunderstanding
that happened on his "speed seduction" list which he
runs, and discipline/remove "Riker" and reinstate cancelled 
accounts. Needless to say, he totally let me down. It is a 
shame, and a real disappointment.. read all about it below...

Basically, Mr. Riker threw me off the list after he misread
a posting to be from an anon. account (which is a rule
violation), when it was actually from my regular one. When 
I showed "riker" his error (see below), he sent a tirade of obnoxious 
email below and cancelled me from the list. Ross did not
support me either..

I trusted that this sort of thing did not represent Mr. Jeffries' 
organization, and that he would take immediate steps to
resolve this unfortunate situation regarding "Riker", as
I just want to talk about PU, and not this bullshit.
Too bad I was wrong...

You don't realize how down I am about all this today..


Its starts when I post my HB Blitz story to the SS
newsgroups that I put on ASF last week, and Riker sends 
the following... at the end is my letter to Mr. Jeffries 
regarding it all and his reply, with my closing statements.

A shame really...


Maniac

----------------------THIS ALL STARTS WHEN RIKER POSTS THE FOLLOWING TO 
                      EVERYONE ON THE WHOLE LIST (WITH A COPY TO ME)



Subject:Re: opinions on chick, try#2 (HB Blitz) FREE EMAIL!!!
Date:Thu, 23 Sep 1999 06:32:29 -0700
From:Dave Riker   | Block address
To:"Robot Mail Receiver" ,


On 9/23/99 12:53 AM, Robot Mail Receiver said:

>Posted via Talkway - http://www.talkway.com
>Exchange ideas on practically anything (tm).

Was this posted using a "free" email service? Looks like it to me.

***

It appears that you have subscribed to the SS Mailing List using a
"free" email service. This is unacceptable and in violation of the Security 
Agreement.

Please cease and desist immediately from subscribing in this manner. If

you wish to secure a paid account, and re-subscribe, you may do so. 
However at this time, steps are being taken to have your subscription 
terminated.

If this assessment (of this service you are using being "free") is 
incorrect, please provide proof (URL or text which can be 
cross-referenced) back to the poster of this message (directly) and
your addition back onto the SS List will be considered.

No exceptions are allowed. Every "story" has been heard. These measures
are necessary to maintain the security of the List for the good of its 
members.


-----------------------------------MANIAC REPLIES


Riker,

>Was this posted using a "free" email service? Looks like it to me.  

Nope, not the case..

Mr. Riker.. as many already know (and I am sure others will back me up),
it has always been my policy to follow the rules carefully, and only post
information that is relevant and of use to the brothers and other
readers, both here and on A.S.F.

Please read the post in question carefully. It is posted from .
That is my paid account, as per your instructions , and is in violation
of nothing whatsoever. 

Sir, I take the rules seriously too and take offense that you accuse me
of things publicly before getting your facts straight first.. You can cross
reference my [regular] address as much as you like and you will
see everything is fine, totally legit, and as per your instructions. 
It is the address I use, and the one it was posted from as well, is 
the address that I originally applied to the SSlist, and is the one that 
appears on the message (and every other I posted) you are questioning.

As for the post itself it is one which I also posted to A.S.F. and it is a 
cut/paste, hence, the yahoo.com address which was part of the paste.  Furthermore,
as to  and maniac_high@pickupguide.com, Ross Jeffries has all 
the details, I emailed them to him when I asked to subscribe to this list
and I trust he will find this to be so upon looking at this, as nothing
has changed since them. 

If you have any further questions, please send them to me personally. 
As well, if you have any more questions/issues, I prefer you write
to me first to clarify, before taking "actions" again, before knowing
exactly whats going on. It makes me look bad, makes you look even worse,
and detracts from the quality of the list and what the brothers contribute
to itakes As for Ross, he knows that I am Maniac High on ASF,
and myself, on this list as I sent him this information back when I 
started the request to subscibe. I would think you might, because I know you
read A.S.F. as well.

>Please cease and desist immediately from subscribing in this manner. If
>you wish to secure a paid account, and re-subscribe, you may do so.
>However at this time, steps are being taken to have your subscription
>terminated.

See above please..

I trust that you will immediately and promptly correct whatever 
"terminations" you may have done, and feed back the previous articles that
got missed, now that you understand the situation.
If you have any further questions, please write to me personally, and
I would be happy to answer them for you.

As well, I may from time to time post things on SSlist that are relavent
that I also post on ASF, and the posts may appear like the last one.
So please look at them carefully, and you will see, that they are in fact
from my legit address as you request of all the brothers on the list. 

As well, I would ask that you also apologize on the list for this, after
reinstating my account as I do consider my reputation very important, and do 
not wish to be falsely associated with thee kinds of behavior, that you 
accused me publicly of. Again, if you have any questions about any of this,
or still feel I did anything improper, please contact me personally
at  and I will be happy to discuss any questions you may
have.

Thank You

--------------------------RIKER REPLIES

Subject:Bye bye
    Date:Thu, 23 Sep 1999 08:21:42 -0700
    From:Dave Riker   | Block address
      To:"Robot Mail Receiver" 
          

                                                             Add Addresses 




NEVER EVER EVER FUCKING EVER

Reply to something like that on the list.

Ever.

I dont care who you are, or think you are.

I sent the order to have you removed.

------------------------------------- RIKER CONTINUES

Subject:
          a chance to redeem
    Date:
          Thu, 23 Sep 1999 08:25:13 -0700
    From:
          Dave Riker   | Block address
      To:
          "Robot Mail Receiver" ,
          

Add Addresses 




If you want to resubscribe using a different email, go ahead. Maybe it
is not free after all, but after this much hassle, I am not going to
verify it.

The free mail thing was bad enough, but replying to the on-list was WAY
off. I just sent out msgs including the "golden rule", which is, if it 
does not have to do with SS, don't post it. You broke that. Between
that and the account issues, I have sent a kick order.

I will be reasonable, but between these two issues (in like 1 DAY), its
not worth the trouble. Get another account, and sit back and learn how 
the list runs, and you can be a member.

Bye bye.


--------------------------------------MANIAC WRITES

Date:
Thu, 23 Sep 1999 10:40:32 -0400
From:
Robot Mail Receiver   | Block
address
To:
maniac_high@pickupguide.com, riker@san.rr.com,
Subject:
Re: a chance to redeem

Add Addresses 




Riker,

[regular address] is my list account. In fact, I own the machine, and
have many accounts on it. The domain [regular.address] belongs to me. It is
registered in my name on internic, [real name] (you can see it on Internic) or
wherever, in my application too [to you and RJ --note], which I filled 
to get the account.

As I said, I assure you, everything is legit, as I told you. The
account says 'robot mail receiver', because that is exactly what it is, a
account for receiveing mailing lists, of many accounts on the machine.

Thank you for looking into this, and restoring things promptly.

>The free mail thing was bad enough, but replying to the on-list was
>WAY off. I just sent out msgs including the "golden rule", which is, if it
>does not have to do with SS, don't post it.

I just replied to what you wrote and it posted as well since I guess
you also posted that (non SS related?) message (inappropriately perhaps
as well?) to the list. I agree though, email only is better... We
should both do that from now on.

If you have any further questions, please let me know, I will be happy
to discuss them. I expect the list to be restored promptly unless there
are further issues regarding this unfortunately misunderstanding.

Thank you

-------------------------------------------RIKER WRITES

From riker@mail3-atm.san.rr.com  Thu Sep 23 10:51:22 1999
Subject: Re: a chance to redeem
Date: Thu, 23 Sep 1999 08:45:42 -0700
x-sender: riker@pop-server
x-mailer: Claris Emailer 2.0v3, January 22, 1998
From: Dave Riker 
To: "Robot Mail Receiver" 
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"

On 9/23/99 7:40 AM, Robot Mail Receiver said:

>I just replied to what you wrote and it posted as well since I guess
>you also posted that (non SS related?) message (inappropriately perhaps
>as well?) to the list. I agree though, email only is better... We should
>both do that from now on.
>

LOL!

I CAN  do that because of my status as assigned by Ross. You want to deal
with 100 off-list dumbass question a week? You want the job?     

>If you have any further questions, please let me know, I will be happy to
>discuss them. I expect the list to be restored promptly unless there are
>further issues regarding this unfortunately misunderstanding.

I expect? You EXPECT?

Your list membership from that older account is deleted.

If you want to subscribe again, go ahead.

Keep the "free-mail" appearing signatures off.

Create an email account that at least "looks" normal then.

You have to understand, I cannot even allow the *appearance* of someone
breaking the rules. Even if they are actually not doing so (which it now
appears given the explanation of the account situation) that fact that
the account "looks" like it is free, creates a freegin NIGHTMARE FOR ME.
It "looks" like you have been "allowed" to to this. Then someone else
wants to be "allowed", then I have to explain why you "can" and why they
"cannot". BS - I don't have time. If you deal with the 'net, you know    
what I mean.

And there is NO excuse for your on-list reply. None. At all. Don't do it
again, or you will be banned permanently.

Create another account that a least "looks" real, and subscribe using
that one.

That is all, I don't want to discuss this further. You have taken too
much time already.    


------------------------MANIAC'S POST TO SS LIST BROTHERS..



Re: Riker's comments on my HB Blitz posting..


This is ridiculous, after receiving a tirade of
rude and uncalled for mail from this "riker",
I have decided to follow this up with Ross Jeffries 
directly who I trust will behave more professionally 
regarding this misunderstanding.

Many of you already know my excellent reputation from
USENET A.S.F. (alt.seduction.fast), my website and my 
contributions to SS and seduction, so I trust we can follow 
our exploits there if I get blown off this list (which
Riker has told me he is going to do now).

In closing, I have to say, this incident is absolutely 
a disgrace to SS, and to Mr. Jeffries and what he stands for. 
Riker should be ashamed of himself.. I trust that he will
apologize to all of you, who make this group possible,
for this bullshit and distraction from what we are all 
trying to accomplish here.

Followups to this situation, and my other SS-related
stories will be on my website, and on Newsgroup A.S.F. until
this gets resolved. Hope to see you all there where we can
talk about more PU and SS stuff.


Peace brothers, hope to see you soon again; once this is
resolved..   

[Mr. Jeffries, I just sent you a message regarding this to
your private sandworm account. If you could address this
please, promptly and let me know what you will do, it will
be helpful, as it just makes everyone look bad.. I want to
talk about PU, and not this sort of bullshit, its bad for
everyone, and I dont really want this to escalate any 
further.. I trust you won't let me, or the other list
members down.. Thanks Ross,]

Thanks everyone;

Maniac
http://www.pickupguide.com
 (my personal account)
maniac_high@pickupguide.com (ASF account)




----------------------------------LETTER TO MR. JEFFRIES

Dear Mr. Jeffries,

I am one of your SS customers, and spent approximately $1000
on your products earlier this year. My issue is with the 
SS-list subscription, which was included in the purchase.

The individual below, who is apparently your SS-list admin, 
is being rude, acting disrespectfully, and behaving 
unprofessionally before checking any facts (his messages
attached below).

Sir, I am one of your customers, and I am sure that you 
understand that I expect far better treatment and much
more professional behavior than what is attached below from 
those that I do business with. 

Although I have been very pleased with your products so
far, never, with anyone from any organization I have ever done 
business with in the past, have I ever been treated in such a 
rude, unprofessional and, belligerent manner as I have been
from this "Mr. Riker" who apparently represents you on SS-list.

Could you please look into this matter and address it 
appropriately with Mr. Riker so that such an incident does not
happen again with me, or any of your other clients. As well 
I expect a full public apology from "Mr. Riker" to the group
for his inappropriate behavior publicly directed at me, or to 
any others in the group regarding this.

As well, please ensure that my list subscription is reinstated 
promptly, and any missed articles resulting from this action are 
resent.

If you have any questions, or issues regarding this matter,
please write me directly, and I will be happy to discuss it
with you further as I do not want this to escalate any further,
and detract from either of our reputations.

Thank you very much for your assistance,
[Mr. Riker's message, and my reply follow..]


-------------------------------ROSS JEFFRIES REPLIED

From sandworm@mediaone.net  Thu Sep 23 12:34:19 1999
Return-Path: 

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
X-Sender: sandworm@pop.we.mediaone.net

Date: Thu, 23 Sep 1999 10:34:12 -0700
To: Robot Mail Receiver 
From: Ross Jeffries 
Subject: Re: Customer satisfaction problem -- please help
Cc: riker@mail.com
Status: R

>Dear Mr. Jeffries,
>
>I am one of your SS customers, and spent approximately $1000
>on your products earlier this year. My issue is with the
>SS-list subscription, which was included in the purchase.




  Get over yourself. Your outburst about this on the list is ground, in
itself, for removal. This is a PRIVATE matter that should  have been
handled that way.

  Further, I don't appreciate threats or demands or statements about what
you "EXPECT".  I don't respond to such bullshit; being a customer does NOT
mean I will kiss your ass.

  Please return all products for a FULL refund and stay OFF the SS list.


P.S I think your website is NONSENSE and I think you don't have much of a
clue at all about SS.  I FULLY support Riker on this...



-----------------------MANIAC'S LAST NOTE TO SS-LIST

Hi all,

Ross, regrettably, didn't stand up for me..
I just got his note..

Details on my website, and on alt.seduction.fast.

A shame really, I had hoped for more  than
this and still I believe and aspire to
his material.

See you all in alt.seduction.fast., where we
can continue to share stories and learn from
each other!

Good luck to all of you, and your seduction 
efforts! (including Ross and Riker, who I
trust will one day see the wisdom in what they
have just done wrong...)

Bye!

Maniac
http://www.pickupguide.com